Deoxyribose wrote:
呵呵, 我一開始早就(恕刪)
啊...看你說得很高興，不小心睡著了
我懂，我對
覺得有錯，指證我錯就好
如同先前我忘了說過的話
該我的，我不會否認
反正你沒說我錯，那還有啥好質疑的？
而且也只有你有問題啊
然後你承認有病又不醫，所以你的問題沒人幫的了
所以
就看你哪時候提出我有錯的指證囉
Deoxyribose wrote:
台灣爆發了嗎?
美國CDC是這樣說社區傳播的
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/s0226-Covid-19-spread.html
Community spread means spread of an illness for which the source of infection is unknown. It’s also possible, however, that the patient may have been exposed to a returned traveler who was infected.
社區傳播是指傳染源未知的疾病的傳播。但是，也有可能患者可能已經被返回的受感染旅行者暴露
以這個定義來看，國內早就有許多案例了
雖然我們的部長跟CDC，把社區傳染還加上相當"嚴格"的附帶條件
但，在美國，抓不到傳染源時，都會算是社區傳播
既然美國進入社區傳播階段的時候，就放寬篩檢限制了
而國內，恩，再弄個 社區感染locally infected 的詞出來
好啦，在國內不算就不算
也難怪，日本跟歐盟第一時間沒開放給 "自稱優等生" 的台灣
畢竟，有許多標準，台灣都是自成一格，滿滿的台灣價值
願機會永遠對你有利
May the odds be ever in your favor.
Ramsa wrote:
所以相信你也知道後來美國CDC並沒有因為不準確
而將抗體檢測排除於檢測方式之外
相反的，還提出補強，建議抗體檢測要檢測2次以上，以提高準確性
【全世界都會把驗出新冠病毒抗體的人列為確診，除了台灣】，是你在308樓講的
【美國疾控中心（CDC）早前承認，將新冠病毒檢測與抗體檢測結果統計合二為一】是你在319樓講的
你卻認為我知道【美國ＣＤＣ並沒有因為抗體檢測不準確而排除於檢測之外】？？？
我只看到美國ＣＤＣ已經承認把抗體檢測列為確診是「不正確的」
至於美國ＣＤＣ「現在」有沒有因為抗體檢測不準確而排除於檢測之外
不是應該由你來舉證嗎？畢竟是你舉例美國ＣＤＣ的啊
怎麼會相信我也知道了？？
認錯，是啦
但是美國CDC有提出相應的對策
而不是直接把抗體檢測排除在外
請問你是否有證據支持「現在」的美國ＣＤＣ仍在用「自己承認不準確的抗體檢測」當作確診的依據？
人中出呂布 馬中出赤兔
jerry2529 wrote:
請問你是否有證據支持「現在」的美國ＣＤＣ仍在用「自己承認不準確的抗體檢測」當作確診的依據？
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/lab/resources/antibody-tests-professional.html
5/28發布的，比5/23還晚一點
Antibody tests can support the clinical assessment of COVID-19 illness for people who are being tested 9 to 14 days after illness onset, in addition to recommended virus detection methods such as PCR. This will maximize sensitivity as the sensitivity of nucleic acid detection is decreasing and serologic testing is increasing during this time period.
Minimize false positive results by choosing an antibody test with high specificity and by testing populations and people who are likely to have had COVID-19. When testing people who live in an area where not many people have had COVID-19, consider using a second antibody test in addition to the first to better understand whether the initial result may have been a false positive.
表示美國CDC是持續優化抗體檢測的可信度，而不是屏除不用
願機會永遠對你有利
May the odds be ever in your favor.
Ramsa wrote:下面擷取部分被你遺漏的內容，直接用google翻譯
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/lab/resources/antibody-tests-professional.html
5/28發布的，比5/23還晚一點
Antibody tests can support the clinical assessment of COVID-19 illness for people who are being tested 9 to 14 days after illness onset, in addition to recommended virus detection methods such as PCR. This will maximize sensitivity as the sensitivity of nucleic acid detection is decreasing and serologic testing is increasing during this time period.
Minimize false positive results by choosing an antibody test with high specificity and by testing populations and people who are likely to have had COVID-19. When testing people who live in an area where not many people have had COVID-19, consider using a second antibody test in addition to the first to better understand whether the initial result may have been a false positive.
表示美國CDC是持續優化抗體檢測的可信度，而不是屏除不用
Do not use antibody tests to determine a person’s immune status until evidence confirms that antibodies provide protection; how much antibody is protective; and how long protection lasts.
在證據證實抗體可以提供保護之前，請勿使用抗體測試來確定人的免疫狀態；多少抗體具有保護性；以及保護的持續時間。
Antibody test results should not be used to diagnose someone with an active infection.
抗體測試結果不得用於診斷患有活動性感染的人。
以上網址內容只看到美國ＣＤＣ再次呼籲抗體測試結果不得用於診斷患有活動性感染的人。
還是沒看到證明你認為「現在」美國ＣＤＣ仍在用「自己承認不準確的抗體檢測」當作確診的依據。
人中出呂布 馬中出赤兔
jerry2529 wrote:
只看到美國ＣＤＣ再次呼籲抗體測試結果不得用於診斷患有活動性感染的人
你要呼巄也沒關係，但是文字順序也別亂看
Antibody test results should not be used to diagnose someone with an active infection.
Antibody tests can support the clinical assessment of COVID-19 illness for people who are being tested 9 to 14
days after illness onset, in addition to recommended virus detection methods such as PCR. This will maximize
sensitivity as the sensitivity of nucleic acid detection is decreasing and serologic testing is increasing during this
time period.
Antibody testing can help establish a clinical picture when patients have late complications of COVID-19 illness,
such as multisystem inflammatory syndrome in children.
抗體測試結果不得用於診斷患有活動性感染的人。
除了推薦的病毒檢測方法（例如PCR）外，抗體測試還可以支持對在疾病發作後9到14天接受測試的人進行
COVID-19疾病的臨床評估。在此期間，隨著核酸檢測靈敏度的降低和血清學檢測的提高，這將使靈敏度最大
化。
當患者患有COVID-19疾病的晚期並發症（例如兒童多系統炎症綜合症）時，抗體測試可以幫助建立臨床圖像。
當你看了前面不得之後，但CDC在後面又有增加附帶說明，不知你有沒有看
CDC指出抗體檢測可適用範圍
而且 active infection 開放性感染 指的是評估傳染力
而不是評估有沒有確診
願機會永遠對你有利
May the odds be ever in your favor.
Ramsa wrote:
當你看了前面不得之後，但CDC在後面又有增加附帶說明，不知你有沒有看
CDC指出抗體檢測可適用範圍
而且 active infection 開放性感染 指的是評估傳染力
而不是評估有沒有確診
美國ＣＤＣ在2020/7/2已經表示很清楚
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/testing-overview.html?CDC_AA_refVal=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cdc.gov%2Fcoronavirus%2F2019-ncov%2Fhcp%2Fclinical-criteria.html
Authorized assays for viral testing include those that detect SARS-CoV-2 nucleic acid or antigen
授權進行病毒檢測的檢測方法包括檢測SARS-CoV-2核酸或抗原的檢測方法
CDC does not currently recommend using antibody testing as the sole basis for diagnosis of acute infection, and antibody tests are not authorized by FDA for such diagnostic purposes.
CDC當前不建議將抗體檢測作為診斷急性感染的唯一依據，並且FDA未授權將抗體檢測用於此類診斷
請問你所提的美國ＣＤＣ資料裡面
哪裡有寫美國ＣＤＣ把「抗體檢測」當作確診依據？
人中出呂布 馬中出赤兔
jerry2529 wrote:
美國ＣＤＣ在2020(恕刪)
https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/letters-health-care-providers/important-information-use-serological-antibody-tests-covid-19-letter-health-care-providers
The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) recommends that health care providers continue to use serological tests intended to detect antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 to help identify people who may have been exposed to the SARS-CoV-2 virus or have recovered from the COVID-19 infection. Health care providers should also be aware of the limitations of these tests and the risks to patients and the community if the test results are used as the sole basis to diagnose COVID-19.
如果將檢測結果作為診斷COVID-19的唯一依據，則醫療服務提供者還應該意識到這些檢測的局限性以及對患者和社區的風險。
雖然這個是比較早先的訊息
不過整段話是這樣子的，並非單一性的不建議，而是有但書的同意
你說要強調不建議，那也OK，你高興就好了
--
追記
會討論這個也是這篇
敦睦艦隊竟有多名官兵有抗體？指揮中心證實：代表都曾感染新冠肺炎
https://www.storm.mg/article/2558926
莊人祥解釋，替磐石艦上377人進行抽血與血清抗體檢驗，其中發現多人有IgM與IgG抗體，表示這些人都曾感染過新冠病毒。
都曾感染，卻不列為確診，是啥道理？
當下體內沒驗出病毒，就不算確診
如果這就是國內的標準，那還是一句話
沒有驗，就沒確診
...大家好自為之吧
願機會永遠對你有利
May the odds be ever in your favor.
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