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五毛哭哭,外國網站指 殲20匿蹤與舊4代機差不多

奸20在外國有人指出殲20設計外型有缺陷,他的RCS居然是1~3m2,大概只等同於舊型四代機,發現遠比預期高。
而F22 只有0.0001m2,F117 是0.003m2
這應該會讓軍盲五毛崩潰吧!!

我的英文不好,有興趣英文好的可以翻譯看看!!

- China’s fighter planes are mostly the older 4G J-7s, which were derived from the Russian MIG-21 airframe. So, they probably show the same RCS of about 3m2 best case. Their J-10s have an RCS of 0.5 to 1.5m2. Their newer J-20 fighter has some flaws in its design, so it has an RCS about the same as older 4G fighters (about 1m2 to 3m2).

F-22 has an RCS of 0.0001m2,the same as the size of a bumble bee.
F-117 Nighthawk from the 1980s. It has an RCS of 0.003m2, about the size of a hummingbird

http://mil-embedded.com/guest-blogs/radar-cross-section-the-measure-of-stealth/


Before we get into this, other complications need to be mentioned. The RCS of an aircraft depends on its aspect, the orientation of the target to the radar source. Any aircraft will have a smaller RCS from the front, and show-up bigger from the side or the rear. Looking at the table values, their numbers seem to be based on the frontal aspect, the lowest RCS of the aircraft. Also, some fighter jets have their largest RCS from the rear, due to the exhaust nozzles. And, RCS depends on the wavelength (frequency) of the radar signal and how far away the target is. But we’ll ignore these pesky details for now. Just consider the numbers we use here as the best RCS values for each aircraft. For comparison, an average man has an RCS of about 1m2.

- In my last blog, we talked about Russia’s older 4G MIG-XX, 4.5G SU-34/35, and 5G PAK-FA (T-50) fighter jets. The older 4G MIG platforms have an RCS of 15m2, down to 3m2 for the MIG-21. The SU-34s RCS is 1m2. SU-35s are 1m2 to 3m2, according to web sources. The PAK-FA (T-50) has an RCS of 0.5m2, about the same as a Tomahawk cruise missile. None of those planes are truly stealthy. Most of them are big fat targets to our advanced radars.

- China’s fighter planes are mostly the older 4G J-7s, which were derived from the Russian MIG-21 airframe. So, they probably show the same RCS of about 3m2 best case. Their J-10s have an RCS of 0.5 to 1.5m2. Their newer J-20 fighter has some flaws in its design, so it has an RCS about the same as older 4G fighters (about 1m2 to 3m2). We don’t have much data on their new J-31 (FC-31) fighters, but they did create some rippled exhaust nozzles on their engines that will reduce its rear-aspect reflections. If I had to guess, since the J-31 looks like the offspring of the F-35 and the PAK-FA (T-50), It might have an RCS in the range of 0.5 to 0.1m2, being generous. And, if China is doing so well with their stealth fighter designs, why did they just take delivery of four Russian SU-35s in December 2016? The frontal RCS of their new J-31 is certainly much better than the SU-35, if my guess is accurate, so they must want access to the Russian radar and on-board systems.

- Among the U.S. fighter planes, the 4G F-15 has an RCS of 25m2, not very impressive and bigger than the older Russian MIG fighters. The 4G F16 has an RCS of 5m2, better but still not great. The 4.5G F/A-18 Hornet Navy fighter jet has an RCS of 1m2, about the same as the Russian SU-34/35 and the Chinese J-20. The 5G F-35 has an RCS of 0.005m2, about the size of a golf ball. However, from the rear, it looks much bigger because of the exhaust nozzles, the same problem we saw with the 5G Russian PAK-FA (T-50). For comparison, the 5G F-22 has an RCS of 0.0001m2, about the size of a bumble bee. The U2 and SR-71 spy planes have an RCS of 0.01m2, about the size of a small bird. Our first stealth fighter/bomber was the F-117 Nighthawk from the 1980s. It has an RCS of 0.003m2, about the size of a hummingbird, and those F-117s hit more than 1,600 targets without being molested by Iraqi air defenses during the 1991 Gulf War.
2019-07-29 21:45 發佈
胡不扯 wrote:
奸20在外國有人指...(恕刪)


翻译一下……第一句就说中国的老歼七是四代机!!!
我勒个去,后面还是不看了吧

jesselu wrote:
翻译一下……第一句...(恕刪)


美俄幾代機的分法本來就不一樣~
俄國標準米格21是二代機。

美國2009年之前的標準米格21是二代機。2009之後洛馬的新標準米格21是三代機。

這文直接給劃成四代,犯這種低級常識錯誤的文也可以當寶。

1450那麼好賺?

還是說在Marvel第87號宇宙中的米格21真的是第四代?
錢真好賺,這樣又撈幾分
胡不扯 wrote:
奸20在外國有人指出...(恕刪)

103FDI wrote:
俄國標準米格21是二...(恕刪)

奧林匹斯之劍ρρσ wrote:
錢真好賺,這樣又撈...(恕刪)


整篇文章裡比較有問題的就是J7幾代的問題 其他方面有啥重大問題嗎??

另外~
樓上這兩個要說別人是1450之前敢不敢發誓有靠來這發文賺半毛錢就死全家??
我敢!
你們敢嗎?
FUTABA wrote:

整篇文章裡比較有問題的就是J7幾代的問題 其他方面有啥重大問題嗎??

另外~
樓上這兩個要說別人是1450之前敢不敢發誓有靠來這發文賺半毛錢就死全家??
我敢!
你們敢嗎?


拿錢發文死全家,我同意啊
你這樣會傷到很多本版老面孔哦

一篇文章對於眾所周知的經典戰機劃代都會犯低級常識錯誤。
然後你想告訴別人這文章對於沒有任何實質數據作為可靠依據(模型雷達暗房測試?數字建模虛擬測試?什麼都沒有)而是臆測的新一代戰機RCS是可信的

不過相信這文章會讓你比較開心的話,閣下儘管篤信就好
與人開心自己開心嘛
J-20正面RCS應該沒有此文推估的那麼落後,應該不會高過J-10的水準
但那個乳牛般的肥長機身,線條與主翼不平行的鴨翼與美麗的菊花,RCS應該漂亮不起來
現實是澳洲推算J-20後段不具隱身效果,印度跟台灣都有雷達偵測到J-20的紀錄
即使沒有多基雷達,以台灣極高的雷達密度涵蓋各個角度,說探測不到J-20,不易讓人信服
Daniel Wen wrote:
J-20正面RCS應該沒有此文推估的那麼落後,應該不會高過J-10的水準
但那個乳牛般的肥長機身,線條與主翼不平行的鴨翼與美麗的菊花,RCS應該漂亮不起來
現實是澳洲推算J-20後段不具隱身效果,印度跟台灣都有雷達偵測到J-20的紀錄
即使沒有多基雷達,以台灣極高的雷達密度涵蓋各個角度,說探測不到J-20,不易讓人信服


首先呢,即便是二元矩形噴嘴的F-22,比起老一代F-117在後段雷達反射測試上都要大出很多,這本就是四代機或者說新標準五代機普遍不夠重視的地方,J-20目前主要的問題是沒有換鋸齒噴嘴的發動機,僅有2021號試飛機型有裝。

然後,如果機身尺寸決定是否隱身的話,B-2大很多。
話說F-35機腹那些看起來似乎根本沒遵循隱形設計原則的“肌肉線條”,也沒幾個人認為那會影響隱身效果呢。

至於鴨翼,俯視前後邊線本身和主翼的前後邊線就不平行,在這種情況下如果翼面強行和主翼面平行,反倒會在水平方向在主翼前沿和鴨翼后沿之間形成角反射效果,而鴨翼上翹反而可以避免這種情況發生。
並且鴨翼的翼面實際跟對面機身上半段的頂部截面平行。
多看幾張圖就可以看出來。


再然後呢,印度確實聲稱他們的雷達發現殲20,但是除非是有長期收集信號特征形成數據庫的機型,否則一般在雷達上根本認不出是什麼具體型號的戰機。印度人研究殲20很多年了嗎?如果是龍勃透鏡的條件下就更不可能看出是什麼機型。
而且印度說他們發現中國的東西也不是一天兩天。
2013年印度軍方連續6個月發現“來自中國的間諜無人機”
後來都準備出動迎擊了。
才發現他們一直在監視的是金星和木星。

BBC新聞鏈接:https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-23455128
The Register新聞鏈接 https://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/07/26/india_china_war_jupiter_mars_drones/
所以我是不明白為什麼閣下會願意拿烏龍不斷的印度軍方消息做佐證。


不過我倒是很感興趣台灣軍方是什麼時候宣稱發現J-20的。


本來隱形設計就不是讓人完全無法發現,
只是縮短發現距離來獲得先發出手的優勢而已。


103FDI wrote:
拿錢發文死全家,我...(恕刪)


我覺得死比較多的會是中國人。

看一些人發文的頻率一看就知道了。

大家又不是沒事不用上班 哪像某些毛...

當然啦 有幾個台灣老大 已經退休的,不在此列

話說從頭:我想你們沒有看完整篇文章
樓主上面的引用文章有連結,連結裡面剛好又有另外一個連結,是在講述戰機世代的文章,是同樣一個作者寫的,而且J-7在裡面的世代分代是正確的二代戰機

說回來,那傢伙可不是什麼亂七八糟的作者。

人有錯手 馬有失蹄 我看完他的戰機世代文章、並沒有大問題。

這是他的戰機世代文
1st Gen: 1950s subsonic aircraft that have the speeds and capabilities of propeller driven planes (F-86, MIG-15, etc.)

2nd Gen: 1960s transonic aircraft (F-105, F-106, MIG-19, MIG-21, Chinese J-7, etc.)

3rd Gen: 1970s supersonic aircraft (F-4, MIG-23/24/25/27/30, etc.)

4th Gen: 1980s fast but more maneuverable fighters (F-14, F-15, F-16, MIG-29, MIG-31, SU-27, SU-33, Chinese J-10, etc.)

4.5 Gen: 1990s jets with limited stealth (F/A-18, SU-34/35, Rafale, Eurofighter, Chinese J-20, etc.)

5th Gen: 2000s more stealthy fighters (F-22, F-35, PAK-FA, Chinese J-31)

6th Gen: 2020s super stealthy jets, networked, manned or unmanned, with directed energy weapons (the new F/X in design)
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