penny216 wrote:
Originally...(恕刪)
要靠修改程式作弊才能達到 環保/節能/出力 的目的 ,這是甚麼怪理論 ???
那隨便舉個例子 ,同是歐系柴油車的省油獅王 Peugeot 人家如何作到的 ???
難道也要靠欺騙作弊 ???
分明技不如人嘛 !!!
First, the report itself cites the standard is an average for a given manufacturer’s fleet on page 5. The NOx standard is not meet by a given model or individual car. Some models can be over the limit, but others would need to be under the limit. But for a given model, it should be expected to have varied emissions in different conditions/demands.
首先，報告第五頁自己都說這標準不是規範一款車，而是車廠內的車種，某車款可能超出標準，另一些車款就得低於標準，不管如何，必須瞭解車子在不同狀況下有不同的排放
(補充，Top Gear某集有說過，排放標準不是規範車種而是車廠，主持人還打趣某某車廠完蛋，因為沒有低排放。唯一能夠達標的方式是出掛牌腳踏車，因為0排放剛好把車廠的車種排放標準拉低)
Looking at the multi-state real world driving data for the Passat, there are a number of reported measurements where the car is well below the limit when driven on the flat hiway. The car is clearly capable under the right ON ROAD conditions of being cleaner than the standard helping lower its overall average. Also, for this pages 78-79, the report shows the total average multistate NOx to be .25 g/km which is 5x standard, not the eye popping “upto 40x” where the media uses the worst case urban route of the LNT car. This data proves that the emissions controls are indeed working on road, not what the media would have us believe that there are no controls at all on road.
以Passat為例，有不少的檢驗報告當車行駛在高速上時的排放低於標準，這款車是在部分狀況下排放優於標準以拉低這款車的平均排放標準，報告78-79也指出，此車平均NOx排放為0.25kg/m，5倍於標準。而不是媒體聳動的40倍。這表示排放控制是有在作用，而不是媒體要我們相信的只有在檢驗時作用，而平常開車時根本沒在作用。
The BMW exceeded standard by 10x for the up/downhill route, yet we don’t hear any issues with BMW performing a violation. Yes the BMW did fare better overall in the other conditions, but it would seem that BMW engineers also allow the “controls” to come off significantly at times.
BMW本身在上下坡時也會超出標準10倍，但是沒聽到BMW違規。沒錯，BMW整體平均排放標準是較好，但是我們可以推估BMW其實也有控制排放的行為。
2nd – The NOx is not the only pollutant measured in the report to be controlled by the EPA, there is also data for the Carbon Monoxide (CO), Total Hydrocarbons (THC) and Particulate Matter (PM). We don’t hear about those due to how AWESOME the car performs for these emissions. Page 80 shows the CO to be 1% of the allowed standard. Page 81 shows the THC to be under 1% of the allowed standard. Page 83 shows the PM to be a whopping 0.1% of the allowed standard. No media report has ever told us how clean these engines are for the other pollutants, nor do they show how clean they are compared to gasoline equivalents for these pollutants.
NOx不是唯一的汙染源，CO, THC, PM都是，但是我們沒聽到在這部分的排放有多出色，報告80頁指出 CO排放為標準的1%，81頁指出THC低於1%，83頁，PM是誇張的0.1%。但是媒體根本無視這幾個指標，更無視跟汽油引擎比起來有多環保。
3rd - The report has other issues such as being dominated by urban routes. The LNT car’s hiway data is corrupted by “rush hour”. Isn’t than urban? (page 12) Only 60% of the hiway route was over 90km/hr. Maybe that is hiway in CA, but not for me. The averages do not appear weighted by miles which will greatly skew the poor urban #s with lower distances over the better NOx performing miles with significantly more distance. The report shows the routes being as much as 3x length different, and the portions of the multistate I don’t believe are listed at all.
報告使用的道路是以市區為主，LNT的高速路段也被塞車影響，只有60%的高速路段車速高於90km/h，或許加州的車況是這樣，但是至少我通勤的路線不是這種情況。(後面有點不太懂，不過大意是他的平均排放，無視了路況跟距離)
I don’t make light of the fact VW has done something extremely improper to make NOx test better than it is on road. But there is more to the story than “VW Cheated” and the “40x over standard” emissions. Despite any wrongdoing these are still incredibly clean cars overall, and the NOx performance is not nearly as bad as what is being reported.
我不否認VW有做錯。但是這整件事不是單單只有"VW作弊"以及"超出標準40倍"。儘管有VW作弊，但是不能否認這臺車整體來說還算是蠻環保的，NOx的排放也不是媒體說的那麼誇張。
AngelI wrote:
第一段跟最後一段直...(恕刪)
您翻譯得很好
這報告仔細看的人應該不多
而且看得懂的人應該更少
可以看出得的確國外媒體也是煽動並且引證不當
對於媒體的爆發這件事可見 VW 的公關沒做好
而最重要的是，VW 在產品開發的過程使用了造假的方式
我再 quote 最後一句
I don’t make light of the fact VW has done something extremely improper to make NOx test better than it is on road. But there is more to the story than “VW Cheated” and the “40x over standard” emissions. Despite any wrongdoing these are still incredibly clean cars overall, and the NOx performance is not nearly as bad as what is being reported.
我不否認VW有做錯。但是這整件事不是單單只有"VW作弊"以及"超出標準40倍"。儘管有VW作弊，但是不能否認這臺車整體來說還算是蠻環保的，NOx的排放也不是媒體說的那麼誇張。...(恕刪)
也就是說，如果今天顛倒，BMW 的 10x 利用2 ECU Mapping 造假，而 VW 的5x 沒造假，事實上 VW 就會全身而退!
VW 你怎麼可以造假呢?
為了這麼一點而犯險真是有夠笨的
penny216 wrote:
Originally...(恕刪)
我個人覺得，所謂的理性，就是不看發言者、只看內文、
然後以個人角度沒有情緒性的字眼發言。
我稍微看了一下原文討論串，我嘗試歸納出幾點：
1)TDI引擎並不是「每一項排污都是40倍」
2)其他車廠引擎的路試排污比實驗室測試高
我的問題是
為什麼VW要說謊？
為什麼他要多寫一套程式？
為什麼不讓原有的程式上陣去測試？
我想到的理由有幾點：
A)VW沒有把握可以用正常輸出通過環保局測試
B)VW省下了調教引擎的研發經費，但有想要有好的形象
C)VW可以通過環保局測試，但他追求更好的數字，以創造更好的形象
不管怎麼說，現在這件事造成大家對於VW的觀感很差，而且福斯承認且道歉
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