雨宮瑩 wrote:
第一個問題：
Can you take us a picture?
Can you take us a photo?
這Photo跟Picture是一樣的說法嗎？
第二個問題
We will ship the item including / included / includes other accessories within one business day.
答案應該是那一個呢？理由又是為什麼呢？
第三個問題：
We need to disccuss it before returning the item back to you.
We need to discuss it before we decide to return the item back to you.
We need to discuss it before we return the item to you.
以上三種說法那一種是正確的？return後面還需要加back嗎？(恕刪)
看來樓主送了一個sample給客戶，客戶回覆有問題。
第一句，語意不清，take在這裡是錯的。一般來說 take us 是指「帶我們去.....」，比如說 Take us home. Take us to Hong-Kong. 可以用 send 或者 give。原句可能會被誤解成「你能幫我們照張相嗎？」
Can you send us a photo of the defective item?
或者用
Please send us a photo of the defective item.
不過一般來說，如果對方已經告知你商品有問題，你還要人家照照片寄給你，對方可能會覺得你不相信他說的話。
第二句，用include不恰當。雖然我不知道那個 item 是什麼，但是 item 跟附件是不同的東西。當你用 include 或 including，是指一個大集合包含小集合或者單項物品。你寄去的整個 package 或 shipment 可以說 including the item and the accessories，但是那個 item本身實體上就是它自己，附件是被包括在整個產品包裝裡。
用 and 就可以了。
We will ship the item and the accessories (to you) within one business day.
other 要去掉，因為 accessories 本身就帶有「其他物件」之意。你用other人家會搞不清楚，以為除了該 item 的附件外，還有其他不是該item的附件。可以加 to you。
第三句很奇怪。我想到的假設狀況是，客戶將有問題sample寄回，顯然樓主公司內要鑑定這sample是否真有問題，如果沒問題就再寄回給客戶，所以用了 return一字。那如果討論結果是真的有問題呢？還是return嗎？抑或是應該寄另外一個（replace)？
那個 it 沒頭沒腦前人已經講過了。
無論如何，那個 decide 的意思倒是不能去掉，它其實並不多餘。比方說
We need to discuss it before we return the item to you.
這句話是說，在東西寄回去給你前，我們要討論這件事。這件事是何事？顯然不是討論要不要寄回去，因為句子裡已經說 we return the item to you 了呀！把那個 decide 的動作拿掉，句面就會變成這樣，對方可能看得懂你的原意，不過也可能解釋成你們一定會寄回去，但是在寄回前會有工作會議來討論此項產品瑕疵（所以也要了照片）以便加強品管，寫道歉信甚至賠償客戶損失等等。對方可能會覺得奇怪，要討論「這整件事」（it），為什麼一定要在寄東西回去之前？
也許這樣
We need to inspect the item before deciding on a course of action.
Correct way is to say:
- can you take a picture for us?
the word photo is not common in questions such as above.
2)
To use including:
- We will ship the item including other accessories within one business day.
To use included:
- We will ship the item with other accessories included within one business day.
To use includes:
- We will ship the item in a package that also includes other accessories within one business day.
3)
- We need to discuss about it before returning the item to you
doesn't sound right without "about," and "back" is really unnecessary
- We need to discuss about it before we decide whether to return the item to you or not.
"whether to/or not" goes with decide
- We need to discuss about it before we return the item to you.
ok.
infernoll wrote:
- We need to discuss about it before returning the item to you
doesn't sound right without "about," and "back" is really unnecessary
discuss 後面不加 about，discuss是及物動詞，後面不可加介係詞。英文常犯錯誤之一。
discuss=talk about
discuss about=talk about about（誤）
We will ship the item including other accessories within one business day.
*此句原句應為: We will ship the item which/that includes other accessories within one business day.
*因為關係代名詞which/that當主格時可省略，而前面已有個助動詞+原型動詞 (will ship)，所以後面動詞變成現在分詞型式(如果是被動態則是變成過去分詞)
Q3.
We need to disccuss it before returning the item to you.
*此句原句應為: We need to disccuss it before we return the item to you.
*before在此是當從屬連接詞用，當主要子句和從屬子句的主詞相同，由從屬連接詞所引導的從屬子句中的主詞即可省略，動詞轉為現在分詞形式，即為"分詞構句"
*return已有歸還的意思，可不再多用back
Unfortunately most Taiwanese take it to the heart that language must be punctual and flawless. Ergo language becomes a dead, lifeless academic subject, rather than a living, breathing organism
A mistake is when your writing does not represent your thoughts, not when they are not flawlessly bounded within the realm of academic grammar.
Like 陶淵明 said, “不求甚解.”
來尬英文
With regards to question 3, I assume the purpose of the phrase in question is for business use. Therefore it is important to be specific, clear and grammatically correct.
"We will discuss it before we return the item (back) to you"
The part that did not make full sense to me is the "we will discuss it...". Discuss what? Perhaps replacing "it" with "this matter" will sound more plausible.
"We will discuss this matter before we return the item to you"
or
"We will have a discussion regarding this issue before deciding whether to return the item to you"
Business language is best to be precise, clear and have minimal room for alternative interpretation. Having proper grammar helps, however, one must not let the pursuit of flawless grammar compromise the clarity of the statement.
Whereas in everyday, colloquial use of language, focus on grammar is less important. As long as the other party understands the message you are conveying. Sometimes grammatically incorrect expressions are more effective in communicating certain ideas and feeling.
Language is like a painting; religiously following too many rules will allow limited expression, however there should be enough logic and structure so others can understand what is being expressed.
學語言還是要多講多聽多跟primary speakers對話
很多文法和用詞是要實用才會有概念
英文難的地方是因為有很多rule但也有很多exception
我覺得商用文書講求正確文法並沒有什麼不對，本來就應該如此。字字斟酌其實也是需要，很多英文字翻成中文看起來都相同意思，但是其實之間都有微妙的差異，語氣強弱都有不同，這些都必須要注意到的。並不是說寫英文時成天檢查這檢查那到了一種雞蛋裡挑骨頭的地步，而是自然地將文法內化成以英文思考的方法，自然就會寫對文法。
比如說
discuss the matter
discuss about the matter
不用去查文法書，也不用去確認 discuss 是及物還是不及物動詞，一看之下就知道那個 about 是多出來的，因為 discuss 這個動作已經包含了討論者對於討論課題的主客相關關係，已經有 about 的意義在裡面了。相反地，如果要寫 talk about it，那就不能省掉 about ，因為 talk 就是單純的一個講話動作，並沒有指涉到任何客體。語言是一種習慣，文法只是將這些習慣規則系統化方便學習，老外的小朋友在學到什麼是及物不及物動詞前，很自然就會用 discuss it 這樣的講法。
相同的，講 other accessories 那個 other 也是多餘。文法上沒錯，但是修辭上算是累贅。
至於 "We will discuss this matter before we return the item to you" 這是寫作的問題。本句已經明確指出（或預告）了 return這個動作，也就是說"討論"跟 we return the item to you 這兩件事只有時間上的先後關係(before)，並沒有明確的因果關係。用中文思考這個句子好像沒問題，但是在英文裡面你把決定因果關係的 "decide" 拿掉，整個句子就變得不倫不類。這句話文法上沒錯，但是卻不符合樓主的意思，而且讓人搞不懂是要討論什麼。
台灣的英文教育的確是非常注重文法（而且常常是用中文語法去「想像」英文文法），的確有可能影響到寫作的表意能力。有些人對於這種現象的反動就是去貶低文法的價值，事實上這是本末倒置，並不是文法不重要，而是台灣英文教育讓人對於文法感到反感。
中文也有文法，只是我們自己不太感覺得到。相同地，英語系國家的人寫英文就是如同我們寫中文一樣自然，他們也不會時時刻刻檢查是否符合文法，不過自然寫出來的就不太會錯（美國人不一定......)。但是我們的母語不是英文，除非是已經在純英文環境生活很久，思考都是用英文思考（做夢也是用英文做夢），寫英文時檢查一下文法還是需要的，尤其是正式文書或商用書信。有時我們講錯或是寫錯，對方並沒有太大反應是因為他們覺得對於不是 native speaker的人來說這樣問題不大，並不表示他們不注重，不過正式文書還是不能出錯，你可以在求職信裡弄個文法錯誤試試看。
有一次，有位跑去學中文的仁兄來跟我落中文：「你來這裡工作，講話溝得通嗎？」我那時的感覺應該就像是老外聽到我講錯英文的感覺差不多吧！我只好笑笑地回答：「溝得通。」他就滿意地走了......
太多文法東西
多看電視,多看書就好了
第一個問題：
請問Photo跟Picture到底有什麼差呢？
例：
Can you take us a picture? << 很奇怪
Can you take us a photo? <<更奇怪
Can you take a picture for us
這Photo跟Picture是一樣的說法嗎？
photo 通常是用在比較正式的說法
而且專指照片,
但是picture是泛指
可以用在圖片,照片...etc
第二個問題
We will ship the item including / included / includes other accessories within one business day.
答案應該是那一個呢？理由又是為什麼呢？
We'll process the shipment including all the accessories within one business day.
we'll ship the item including the accessories within one business day.
included是過去式,不該放在這邊
includes 是第三人用的,也不對
第三個問題：
We need to disccuss it before returning the item back to you.
We need to discuss it before we decide to return the item back to you.
We need to discuss it before we return the item to you.
以上三種說法那一種是正確的？return後面還需要加back嗎？
discuss what?
it 是非常台灣的,非常語意不明的東西
最好不要用
看到這邊我才搞董你是要叫客戶照張相
然後再討論什麼的
正式一點應該說
would you mind taking a picture of the defective item for us , or send it back to us at your convenience , so we can further analysis the problem that you're having.
in the mean time we'll ship a replacement item to you within one business day so you can continue with your schedule(..blah).
你們東西有問題應該是要趕快ship一個新的給人家
而不是說可不可以照張像給我們看看,我們在想要怎麼辦
在你們在想要怎麼辦的時候也許已經有一排廠商在在等著送她們的sample了...
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