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Ohlins代工的Cane Creek Double barrel後避震器,更新中文說明書在72樓

這是這支避震器的原廠網站:
http://www.canecreek.com/home.html

引述一位美國朋友(此人常在本版出沒,自己承認吧!)說的話:

"這怪貨對設定超敏感,
SAG搞定之後,
最好看看全部的設定是不是在工廠預設值!
因為工廠預設值真的很神奇,
讓你在平路時覺得沒什麼特別,黏黏的.....
但到山路(不是指柏油路)衝的話,不管多快後輪都會貼著路面!!
CCDB是個你放在車上就會忘記的東西
好像你的車根本一開始就應該附這避震器
還沒有第二根後避震會讓我完全的不想去動它的設定的避震
(不要舉例好了,不滿意的避震器的清單有點長...)
CCDB並不是platform的避震器,所以它不會有platform shocks的通病
它只算是高/低速rebound/compression可獨立調整的設計
而它就是厲害在它可調的範圍很廣,很明確,又不依賴任何的air chambers
所以一但調好了,像我就不曾想去動它了!!



之前未改版的網站上面有寫價錢:
鈦彈簧版$850 (w/ti spring),
鋼簧版 $650 (w/steel spring)

盒內還附一份說明書,以及這支避震器的測試報告!!
這點很值得肯定!!







Ohlins代工的Cane Creek Double barrel後避震器,更新中文說明書在72樓
Ohlins代工的Cane Creek Double barrel後避震器,更新中文說明書在72樓
Ohlins代工的Cane Creek Double barrel後避震器,更新中文說明書在72樓
Ohlins代工的Cane Creek Double barrel後避震器,更新中文說明書在72樓
Ohlins代工的Cane Creek Double barrel後避震器,更新中文說明書在72樓
Ohlins代工的Cane Creek Double barrel後避震器,更新中文說明書在72樓
Ohlins代工的Cane Creek Double barrel後避震器,更新中文說明書在72樓
Ohlins代工的Cane Creek Double barrel後避震器,更新中文說明書在72樓
Ohlins代工的Cane Creek Double barrel後避震器,更新中文說明書在72樓
Ohlins代工的Cane Creek Double barrel後避震器,更新中文說明書在72樓


這次的車展有遇到CCDB的工程師,特別向他們請教了一下!
特別是工程師向我們解說鏤空版的CCDB之後.........

套句某車友的話:
"從內部的構造來看,也有可能是我的想像力不足,但我無法想像比這支的設計更好的後避震了"

另一位在美國的車友:
"習慣了CCDB後覺得其它的避震器用起來都像玩具,是條不歸路"

真的!!
經由"雙內管"的設計,讓裡面的阻尼油經過由各種閥門的"雙外管",造成不斷循環的阻尼油迴路,避免傳統油路都只在內管裡經由單一閥門控制,在高速來回壓縮時,容易使阻尼不順暢的情形!!
當然,雙外管就可以分別控制"高低速組尼",以及"高低速壓縮(回彈)"的控制,這是一般後避震器做不到的!
有這樣控制的大部分只有高階前叉而已!!

由於順暢的阻尼機制,工程師也特別說明了用此避震器,所使用的彈簧磅數要比一般以自己體重算出來的磅數還要輕,例如體重70公斤,原本用FOX避震器的話要用400磅的彈簧,換用CCDB避震器的話,可能只用350磅就可以了!!

甚至說因為"鋼製彈簧"由於重量較重,在壓縮時會有"慣性"作用,因此也特別強調使用輕量"鈦彈簧"可以使CCDB發揮更好的功效!!


Ohlins代工的Cane Creek Double barrel後避震器,更新中文說明書在72樓
Ohlins代工的Cane Creek Double barrel後避震器,更新中文說明書在72樓
Ohlins代工的Cane Creek Double barrel後避震器,更新中文說明書在72樓Ohlins代工的Cane Creek Double barrel後避震器,更新中文說明書在72樓Ohlins代工的Cane Creek Double barrel後避震器,更新中文說明書在72樓


有車友幫我找到一個國外車友使用後的評論:
http://www.mtbtrailreview.com/blog/cane-creek-double-barrel-long-term-review/parts/

只能說............................讚啦!

以下是翻譯文:
Cane Creek Double Barrel - Long Term Review
鈦彈簧雙筒後避震器-長期觀察

April 5th, 2008 | Published in Featured, Parts, Thoughts | 4 Comments
A couple of points before we get started…
1. I purchased this shock for retail price in June of last year.
2. It has been in several configurations on two different bikes (more later on this).
3. This review is solely my opinion on the performance and characteristics.
4. I have only ever used steel springs.
5. I am not affiliated with Cane Creek or Ohlins Racing.
6. During testing period, riding weight ranged from 185 lbs to 195 lbs.
閱前注意要點:
1. 我在去年六月以零售價買了這支避震器。
2. 它提供了幾款不同造型以適用於兩台不同的單車(之後還會出產更多款)。
3. 這次僅僅是我個人的使用心得。
4. 我只用過鋼製彈簧。
5. 我並不是Cane Creek公司或Ohlins Racing公司的員工。
6. 在測試期間,我的體重介於185至195磅之間。
CANE CREEK DOUBLE BARREL BACKGROUND
Cane Creek鈦彈簧雙筒設計背景
The Double Barrel was developed by Cane Creek in conjunction with Ohlins Racing. Their goal was to produce the best performing rear shock on the market for a mountain bike. Ohlins Racing’s United States branch office is located in Hendersonville, NC a stone’s throw away from Cane Creek’s headquarters. Ohins Racing is known for producing some of the best shock absorbers on the market and with more than 200 World Championship and other major titles, they have earned the right to claim that they are one of the best in the industry. This partnership with Ohins Racing and Cane Creek has proved to be very beneficial for both parties and the result was the Double Barrel. The Double Barrel also won Mountain Bike’s coveted Product of the Year Award in 2006. Each Double Barrel is handbuilt in North Carolina and goes through a testing process on the dyno before you even get your hands on it.
Cane Creek與Ohlins Racing合作,發展出雙筒設計,目標是使市場上的登山用後避震器發揮最大效用。Ohlins Racing在美國的分公司座落於北卡羅萊納州的韓德森維爾,距離Cane Creek總部咫尺之遠。Ohlins Racing以設計出市場上幾款頂尖的避震器出名,並榮獲超過200次世界級冠軍和其他重大獎項,理所當然是在這一行的佼佼者。Cane Creek與Ohlins Racing之間互助互惠,他們所共同生產的鈦彈簧雙筒後避震器也同樣獲得今年最夢寐以求登山車元件的獎項。每支雙筒後避震器都是在北卡羅萊納州以手工製造,而且在你購買之前一定都經過馬力機的測試。
TECHNOLOGY 技術
The Double Barrel is the first rear shock to use Ohlins patented twin tube technology.
鈦彈簧雙筒後避震器是第一支使用Ohlins專利-雙管技術的後避震器。
From the Cane Creek Website:
The Double Barrel uses a unique Twin Tube design.
• Unique in industry: it totally isolates the rebound circuits from the compression circuits.
• Twin Tube flows more oil through adjustable valves (instead of piston valves) giving you more control.
• Oil moves through the piston only as directed by the external adjusters. In other words, the rider dictates how much oil will be routed through each valve.
鈦彈簧雙筒後避震器的獨特雙管設計:
• 在這單車界裡是獨一無二的設計,它完全隔絕壓縮迴路和回彈迴路。
• 雙管設計讓你可透過調節閥(而非活塞閥)控制阻尼油流量,更好控制騎乘狀態。
• 阻尼油受到外在調節鈕控制流入活塞;換句話說,騎士可調配流通各個閥門的阻尼油量。
For much more detailed information on the technology behind the Double Barrel, you can check out their website. In an attempt to prevent redundancy, I will not repeat all of that information here.
若是想得到鈦彈簧雙筒後避震器其技術方面更詳細的資訊,請上他們的網站。在這裡我就不重複說明相關細節了。
MY SETUPS 我個人的設定

Ventana El Ciclon - 5″ Mode
7.875″ x 2.00″ with a 450# and 500# spring
Ventana El Ciclon - 6″ Mode
7.875″ x 2.25″ with 500# spring
Ventana El Terremoto - 6″ of Travel
7.875″ x 2.25″
Other Bikes Tested 其他單車測試
2007 Turner RFX - 7.875″ x 2.25″
Turner Spot (Horst Rear) - 7.50″ x 2.00″
2006 Turner Highline
I was able to switch my shock between 2.00″ stroke and 2.25″ stroke because of a nice feature of my particular size shock. All I had to do was remove the cone base plate (as seen with in the triple picture) with a flat base plate (as seen on the header picture) and change the spring from a 2.00″ stroke to a 2.25″. This proved to be very convenient as I was switching rockers and frames. Not all models are able to do that.
這個特殊尺寸的避震器有個特色,能將避震行程調整到2.00吋至2.25吋。只要將圓錐形盤(如同三聯圖中所示)從平底盤(如同再上一個照片所示)上移開,將彈簧從2.00吋避震行程調整到2.25吋。在我轉動調節桿即可改變裝置時,發現這真是非常便利。但並不是所有的調節模式都有辦法做到這樣的程度。
MY RIDE 單車上路
Right now the shock is on my El Terremoto which is a 6 inch four bar from Ventana. It take a 7.875″ x 2.25″ shock, and currently I am running a 450# spring with 3 turns on the preload collar. This gives me about 35-40% sag.
這支避震器現在在我的El Terremoto車架上,這支車架有四根六吋桿子,它需要一支7.875吋 x 2.25吋避震器,而現在的彈簧係數為450、預載量為三轉,達到百分之三十五至四十下沉量。
THE REVIEW 以往經驗回顧
Shocks I have ridden for comparison - Fox DHX-C, Fox DHX-A, Fox RP23, Push’d RP23, Manitou 5th Element, Fox RP3, Avalanche Chubbie w/Hi and Low speed adjustment
比較我曾經使用過的避震器: Fox DHX-C, Fox DHX-A, Fox RP23, Push’d RP23, Manitou 5th Element, Fox RP3, Avalanche Chubbie w/Hi and Low speed adjustment
The shock came in stock for my El Ciclon with the following settings.
這支避震器是為了我的El Ciclon購入的,以下就是我的設定:

• HS Comp 2 turns from fully open
• LS Comp 8 clicks out from fully closed
• HS rebound 2 turns from fully open
• LS rebound 12 clicks from fully closed
• 高速壓縮阻尼-由外向內2轉
• 低速壓縮阻尼-由內向外8節
• 高速回彈阻尼-由外向內2轉
• 低速回彈阻尼-由內向外12節
In the box you get your CCDB, manual and the dyno chart of the adjust ability range of your specific shock. As I had mentioned before, every Double Barrel built at Cane Creek gets fully tested on the dyno before it is shipped to you. They send this graph along with your shock.
在你收到裝有CCDB(Cane Creek鈦彈簧雙筒後避震器)的箱子裡,還有使用手冊及你避震器調整能力範圍的馬力機量測圖。如同先前提到的,每一支Cane Creek製造的鈦彈簧雙筒後避震器在出貨前都有經過馬力機整體測試過,而測試結果的量測圖也會隨著避震器交到你手上。
Initial Thoughts 第一印象
At first, I was blown away. The shock that the CCDB replace on the Ciclon was a stock RP23, and I was having constant problems with mid stroke wallow. I never really could seem to get it to use it’s travel the way I wanted it to. It was getting to the point that I was going to send the shock off to Push to get the entire treatment done. That entire first ride, I was just looking for hard square edges to run into and drop off of. What surprised me the most was not feeling the rear end. It just seemed to act exactly like a suspension is supposed to. It hit the square edge, soaked up the shock and my body stayed in the same place. What surprised me even more was how easy it climbed. There was almost no pedal induced bob but I still had traction when I needed it. There was very little tuning done during this first ride as I was trying to get used to how the shock felt in it’s shipped form.
最初我真是無計可施。在Ciclon換成CCDB之前我是使用RP23,在騎乘的時候一直會有中度顛簸的問題。從沒想過可以換成CCDB以改成我想要的避震行程。而現在終於是時候把舊避震器送回Push、好好將單車整頓一下。第一次上路時,我就只尋找路面突處測試衝刺及落下的反應。最讓我驚訝的是,我完全感覺不到後輪有任何震盪,而這才是懸吊系統應該有的功效啊。當輪胎撞到突處時,避震器吸收了衝擊力,而我的身體卻不會受到震盪。還有,上坡的時候也變得很輕鬆,幾乎沒有踏踏板產生的震盪,但我需要的摩擦力還是存在。第一次上路幾乎沒有動到調節,因為都在試著習慣避震器初始設定的感覺。
After some more time… 測試一段時間之後
While I was very impressed on how the shock performed in it’s stock form, there were several characteristics that I needed to change. I did buy this shock for the extreme adjust ability range it has over any other shock in the market, so I might as well make it act exactly how I want it to.
深刻感受到這個避震器的性能之後,確定有些特性需要做調整。我買這支避震器就是因為它比市場上其他避震器還有更大的調整範圍,這樣才能按照我個人的需求達成想要的表現。
Low Speed Compression 低速壓縮
With the low speed compression at 8 clicks out from fully closed, the bike climbs unbelievably well, but you loose that low shaft speed sensitivity on drops and smaller hits. I have also found that on fully active suspensions (especially four bars like my Ciclon and Terremoto), you can really control pedal bob by concentrating on even and consistent pedal strokes. This is something that every rider should be working on anyway in my opinion. I opened up the LSC 4 clicks from fully open and a whole new world opened up. The rear tire was glued to the ground and this was traction that I have never felt on this bike before. I literally could not feel any jarring hits from the rear end. It just seemed to float over everything. This is the feeling I was looking for all along. On climbs, I had a lot more traction, but there was the pedal induced bob that I was referencing towards earlier. With some work on my climbing skills, this has gone away for the most part. The change in the shocks performance in the flats and on downhill runs totally makes up for the little loss of efficiency climbing. For long extended climbs, I can always use the flat head on my multi-tool to dial up the LSC some. I normally do this on climbs that are long enough that I get pretty tired. I find the more exhausted I am…the more my form takes a hike, so letting the shock do some of the work in that situation is not a bad thing.
在低速壓縮阻尼由內至外調整8節時,單車在上坡路段出乎意料地好騎,但落下及撞擊到小突物的時候卻不影響緩慢的阻尼桿速度。另外,我也發現在懸吊系統完全作用時(特別是像我的Ciclon和Terremoto的四桿車架上)能完全控制踏踏板產生的一連串規律持續的震盪。我想這就是每個騎士會花費心力的地方。接著我將低速壓縮阻尼由外至內轉4節,又出現另一種結果。後輪胎就像黏在地板,以前這台單車從沒有過這樣的摩擦力。我還真感覺不到後端有任何撞擊,就像是飄浮在地面上一樣。這真是我一直夢寐以求的功能。在上坡時,摩擦力多很多,但卻也多了之前我提到的踏踏板引起的衝擊力。這影響了我騎上坡的技術,大多時候會騎不動。改變避震器在平地或下坡時的性能,可完全補足上坡時失去的一些效能。若要爬更長的坡,只要使用我多功能工具裡的一字螺絲起子就能夠些微調節低速壓縮阻尼。正常來說我只會在很長的上坡且騎得非常累了的時候才會這麼做。我發現,我的體力消耗越多,就越像徒步健行,所以在這個情況下使避震器分擔點體力的耗損也不錯呀!
High Speed Compression 高速壓縮
So far, I have left this setting in it’s shipped setting. The larger fast hits seem to be sucked up perfectly without any hint of bottom out. I have noticed on some runs (mostly shuttle runs), that the dirt is off the top of the bottom out bumper. I believe this is happening during fast, chunky rock gardens and larger drops where the shaft speed overtakes the LSC circuit. As long as I am not feeling harsh bottom outs and I am still getting full travel, I believe I have the LSC and HSC dialed in about perfectly for my needs.
高速壓縮阻尼的設定到目前為止我還沒改變過的。更大的快速衝撞力似乎不須壓縮至底就能完全被吸收。我發現有幾趟(大多是急速衝刺)泥沙從壓縮的避震器頂端脫落。我確信這種情況會發生在急速衝刺、路面為石子園地以及高度墜落的時候,阻尼桿的速度超過低速壓縮引流速度。只要不感覺到避震器很吃力地壓縮至底而且還是有完整的避震行程,我相信我已經依自己所需調整好我的低速壓縮和高速壓縮阻尼。
Low Speed Rebound 低速回彈
This is the other setting I left in it’s stock form. I might end up messing with it some more since I have the other three settings right where I want them, but for now…the stock setting is great. The recovery from low speed shaft hits is fast enough where the shock is not packing up, but slow enough that it keeps the plushness that I like.
還有一項我也沒改過。雖然其他三項設定有依我的需求設定完成,但這項設定我怕如果轉動一點就會搞砸了避震器,但到目前為止…初始設定都很棒。在避震器停止運作前,可快速從低速阻尼桿衝擊中回復,卻又夠慢以保持我喜歡的柔軟感。
High Speed Rebound 高速回彈
On the HSR, I opened it up another 1/2 turn from the stock position. I wanted a little faster recovery time in those extended, fast rock gardens so the shock would not pack up. There is a specific rock garden that I test this setting out on locally. It’s about 30 feet long with a 4 foot rock drop at the exit. Blowing through your travel and not being able to recover it would not be a good situation on this run, but with the setting a 1/2 turn out…it seems to work perfectly.
在高速回彈阻尼方面,我調整成比初始設定再鬆1/2轉。我希望再更長、更快的石子園地上回復時間再快一點,這樣避震器才不會停止運作。我在某個石子園地上對避震器做局部測試。此園地大約三十呎長,出入口處還有一塊四尺高的石頭。騎乘過程中,避震行程產生不平順以及無法回復不是個好現象,但如果再鬆1/2轉…可能會運作的更完美。
FINAL THOUGHTS
Overall, I am extremely happy with the CCDB. Out of everything else I have ridden, it is the best performer by a mile. It just acts how I believe a shock should, and a lot of this has to do with the ability to make the shock feel exactly the way you want it to. The CCDB also seems to act it’s best working in the middle of it’s stroke. Increasing your sag height over what you are used to running will probably surprise you. Once I brought the say down in the 35-40% range, the shock really came alive. Keeping it up in the 25-30% range doesn’t really open up the circuits like they were intended in my opinion. Where all of the other shocks I have ridden have lacked (mid-stroke), this shock seems to perform it’s best.
整體來說,我對CCDB很滿意。曾經裝在我單車上的避震器中,在一哩內這一支是性能最好的。它完全如我期望一支避震器該有的性能在運作,其中有許多是和這支避震器搭配個人需求的能力有關。而CCDB也似乎呈現出它最好的表現。增加下沈量超過你慣用的設定,結果可能會讓你出乎意料之外。有次我把下沈量降到百分之35至40,避震器反而運作得更好;因此我認為維持在百分之25至30不見得能讓整個迴路正常運作。在我以前使用過的避震器遇到失去作用的時候(受到中度撞擊時),這個避震器卻似乎能表現得最好。
The CCDB can be a set and forget shock if you want it to be, but you wouldn’t be unloading it’s true potential. One thing to remember…one click makes a difference. I was very used to the Fox shocks where you had to adjust full turns to get any kind of reaction. That is not the case with the CCDB, so make small incremental changes.
CCDB可如你所願對騎乘時的震盪無後顧之憂,但它可不只有這點本事。要記住:調節鈕每轉一小節,性能就不一樣了。以往我很習慣Fox避震器要轉一整圈才能達到自己想要的設定。CCDB可不一樣,你也來輕輕轉動一下!
Any negatives that I can think of? Well only really three…
真要我說有什麼缺點的話……那應該只有三個:
1. It’s expensive - In the world of mountain biking, you get what you pay for. The CCDB is one of the most expensive shocks on the market. I believe that it is worth every penny, but others might not. Throwing a shock on that is worth more than your frame may not be an option. Also, if you swap frames several times a year, you may not want to pay for something that your next frame may not take.
價位高------登山車的世界裡,一分錢一分貨。市場上CCDB是屬於高價位避震器之一。我相信它真的值得這個價錢,但其他同樣高價位的就不見得了。可別隨隨便便裝上比車架更貴的避震器,如果你每年更換好幾次車架,你不會想要買和你下一個車架不合適的東西。
2. It’s heavy - I threw away the notion that weight was a bad thing a long time ago after a friend of mine smoked me up a climb on a 41 lbs Bullit on flats. Heavy coil shocks may not be in the cards for you if weight is an issue. The closest shock perfomancewise would be the Push’d RP23 if you are concerned about weight. A ti spring is also an option, but the weight vs. cost is just not there for me. I also like to play with different spring rates, and that would get very expensive with ti.
重量重------很久以前,自從我朋友載著我、輪胎都陷下去了還能騎著41磅重的Bullit爬坡,我就不再認為重量有多大影響。若是講到重量,沈重的避震器可能會讓你大失所望。若你真的介意重量的話,避震器性能最貼切的就是Push的RP23。其實也可選擇鈦製彈簧,但重量和成本並不符合我的需求。我也喜歡玩不同的彈簧係數,若是用鈦製的彈簧那花費太高了。
3. Adjust ability - This wide of an adjustment range can be a problem for some people. You can get this shock out of wack as fast as you can get it as smooth as butter. Keep the stock settings written down so if you get off track, you can always get back to square one.
調節能力---雖然這支避震器調節範圍很大,對某些人來說卻是種困擾。你能很快對這支避震器的調節上手,同樣也會很快地調亂這支避震器。要將避震器的設定記下來,這樣一旦你亂了套還能回到初始設定。
CANE CREEK
A side note on Cane Creek…this company, in all seriousness, probably has the best customer service in the business. If you have any questions or concerns, they are more than willing to help you out or walk you through it. When you buy a part from them, you really are investing a long term relationship with their company and employees. Their quality control and testing are extremely important, so you always get a top notch product every time. I also use their 110 headsets that you can see in another post. Malcolm is the Double Barrel guru…so if you have any questions…I would drop him an email or a phone call and he will walk you through it.
Cane Creek側寫---這家公司,嚴格說來,可能是商場上售貨服務最好的一家。你有任何問題或想知道的訊息,他們都會非常樂意幫助你解決問題。從你買了他們的產品開始,你就與這家公司與其員工建立長期深厚的關係。他們的品管和試驗非常重要,這樣你才能每次都得到最頂尖的商品。我也使用他們的110頭碗,在我另一篇文章裡也有心得描述。Malcolm是鈦彈簧雙筒後避震器達人通,如果你有任何問題,我會幫你寄email或是打通電話給他,他會幫你解決問題的。

「沒有瘋狂就沒有精彩」「最棒的總在安全區之外」
2008-01-04 23:11 發佈
話說~~~
這個似乎很神奇耶......
兄臺在何處入手的呢??該不會直接殺去美國買吧???
瘋狂火星人 wrote:
話說~~~這個似乎很...(恕刪)


有了一次經驗後,我下次決定請國外的朋友幫我買,再寄過來!!
「沒有瘋狂就沒有精彩」「最棒的總在安全區之外」
之前只在"動力載具"上看過O牌的苦凶
沒想到....連單車也有
MY Blog--> https://s22472684.pixnet.net/blog
避震器第一品牌出手,必屬佳作!
期待試乘報告!
Bruce 我是 FILIP,好多了吧!祝你快快康復。

果然是車魔附身,雖然受傷不能騎車,還不忘繼續添購新武器。
期待這支後避的測試報告。
http://tw.myblog.yahoo.com/filipyang/
FILIPYANG wrote:
Bruce 我是 F...(恕刪)


好多了!
謝謝關心

這支是3個月之前訂的!今天才拿到!
想說考完試就可以盡情的玩了!

沒想到............
「沒有瘋狂就沒有精彩」「最棒的總在安全區之外」
布魯濕~~~!!!

我體重 " 才 " 一百一~~~!!!

可以試試看嗎~~~!!!

850 x 33 = 28050~~~!!!

應該貴的有道理 , 好想搞一隻喔~~~!!!
我是肥羊 , 肥羊是我........謝謝~~~!!!
好高級阿
說明書還有實驗數據
真的是高級品阿
果然是避震器第一品牌,
連腳踏車的都做,還附測試報告....
改天會不會出"電子可調"啊?......
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