"Solaris supports PAE beginning with Solaris version 7. However, third-party drivers used with version 7 are not specifically written to include PAE support may operate erratically or fail outright on a system with PAE."
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Address_Extension)
changjudd wrote:
順便問一下,我用的主機板是msi的p43 neo-3
在"我的電腦"的資訊看到的是3g ram
但是開了pae,執行了ramdisk的 4gb.reg,
我用everest看到pae開了,設定了768mb的ramdisk,
最後ramdsik+已用+可用記憶體還是只有3g
曾經google到一篇說這塊主機板因為某個原因多佔用了兩條線,所以在資訊裡面看到的是3g而不是一般的3.25g
我有點懷疑是因為這樣導致用不到那剩下的ram
有沒有一樣用這塊主機板的可能成功讓ramdisk可以用到那剩下的768mb阿?...(恕刪)
這一點，建議您倒是可以升級到小仲827兄分享過的Gavotte 1.0.4096.5版！如果Gavotte成功抓到被封印的32位元XP/Vista所故意不管的記憶體，RAMdisk的disk label會顯示"RamDisk-PAE"，反之如果只秀"RamDisk"就是沒抓成功....辨認上方便多了。
http://www.mobile01.com/topicdetail.php?f=297&t=808222&p=3#9400967
舊的ramdisk碟必須先移除，否則rramdisk.sys的檔案會被系統鎖住，升級後請記得確認Windows\system32\drivers下的rramdisk.sys日期、檔案大小是否跟你下載的1.0.4096.5版的rramdisk.sys一致，才是安裝成功。
Cudacke Dees wrote:
Not all drivers support more than 4 GB of physical memory; those drivers won't work correctly on a system with PAE."
"Solaris supports PAE beginning with Solaris version 7. However, third-party drivers used with version 7 are not specifically written to include PAE support may operate erratically or fail outright on a system with PAE."
...(恕刪)
所以您是屬於認為這是無法克服的純技術問題派嘍！這前面也回過了，FreeBSD的人力物力財力跟微軟怎麼比！怎麼凹得動業界一堆大哥大把最新硬體主動送來測？有風險一定要加註，相當合理。
但是微軟三四年來不作為是怎樣？32-bit FreeBSD還有維護個黑名單讓沒使用那些黑名單硬體的使用者能夠用到4GB以上的記憶體，Solaris也公布了PAE driver該怎麼實作的注意事項技術文件，也針對有相容問題的舊硬體提供了作業系統核心內的特殊解決方案，絕對不是一律強制限制記憶體量。相對之下，微軟作了什麼？微軟家大業大，丟一篇2005年的技術文件、三四年來沿用一視同仁剝奪所有人權益的方式，再對照微軟近十年來大推Windows Hardware Quality Labs(WHQL)驗證、成立"相容"測試實驗室的巨大人力/物力投資、以及對IHV的強大影響力/約束力，真的合理嗎？真的不能被質疑嗎？
johnhjwu wrote:
但是麻煩不要拿這個東西來亂揮, 那你要不要順道解釋一下 4bit OS怎麼不是祇能用到16 byte呢?
"The range of integer values that can be stored in 32 bits is 0 through 4,294,967,295 or −2,147,483,648 through 2,147,483,647 using two's complement encoding. Hence, a processor with 32-bit memory addresses can directly access 4 GB of byte-addressable memory."
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/32-bit)
增加控制 RAM 部分的 bit 數,
就這麼簡單,
問題是你有運用到 RAM 的硬體軟體,
都要在這部分做到調整,
不然你的系統就會不穩定.
這就是這個系統本身就是 32bit 所造成的限制.
2^32==4G 就這麼簡單.
WizTonE wrote:
1. 自從pentium pro開始支援pae延伸定址, 所以作業系統支援PAE模式下可以定址的範圍變成
32bits + 4bits = 36bits, 那是否可以說支援pae的OS為36位元OS??(技術上來說), 且64bits的OS也沒有PAE這東西了
不行，PAE只是記憶體延伸技術，OS本質上還是32位元，跑的也還是32位元指令。
WizTonE wrote:
2. 微軟PAE網站提到 :
Windows 2000 Advanced Server 8 processors and 8 GB RAM
Windows 2000 Datacenter Server 32 processors and 32 GB RAM (support for 64 GB was not offered because of a lack of systems for testing)
這時候的Advanced server應該為32bits OS?, 所以從這應該可以看出微軟其實從以前就故意區隔家用版與Server版的記憶體使用量囉?
Windows2000全系列都是32位元OS，PAE也是給32位元OS用的技術，64位元就不需要了。
而WinXP/Server2003之後才開始有64位元的版本。
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Windows#Windows_NT_family)
Cudacke Dees wrote:
增加控制 RAM 部分的 bit 數,
就這麼簡單,
問題是你有運用到 RAM 的硬體軟體,
都要在這部分做到調整,
不然你的系統就會不穩定.
這裡是對的
Cudacke Dees wrote:
這就是這個系統本身就是 32bit 所造成的限制.
2^32==4G 就這麼簡單.
還是要講一下，這恐怕是錯誤的說法。
既然32位元已經有PAE技術可以突破記憶體限制，也有實做出來的版本（例如伺服器版本），
就不能說是32bit造成的限制(該限制早已不存在)。而應該要說「要是驅動程式沒辦法配合，會造成OS不穩定」。
另外「2^32==4G」這種寫法本來就很容易讓人混淆。
Cudacke Dees wrote:
"FreeBSD supports PAE in the 4.x series starting with 4.9, in the 5.x series starting with 5.1, and in all 6.x and later releases. The kernel PAE configuration option is required. Loadable kernel modules can only be loaded into a kernel with PAE enabled if the modules were built with PAE enabled; the binary modules in FreeBSD distributions are not built with PAE enabled, and thus cannot be loaded into PAE kernels. Not all drivers support more than 4 GB of physical memory; those drivers won't work correctly on a system with PAE."
"Solaris supports PAE beginning with Solaris version 7. However, third-party drivers used with version 7 are not specifically written to include PAE support may operate erratically or fail outright on a system with PAE."
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Address_Extension)
Cudacke Dees wrote:
Hence, a processor with 32-bit memory addresses can directly access 4 GB of byte-addressable memory."
So.... what's your point?
I totally agree with "a processor with 32-bit memory addresses can directly access 4GB of byte-addressable memory." It's common knowledge to everyone who know binary system. But your answer is only a part of real case and didn't get my point.
There are still lots expectional examples in 32bit OS who can use above 4GB, if you keep mention about XP then I don't want to argue with this part. But like I always say it's an execuse from MS, and not real technical issue. Maybe it will happen disaster when use above 4GB memory in XP 32 bit OS. But it's not a restriction by 32 bit length.
Cosmosfield wrote:
既然32位元已經有PAE技術可以突破記憶體限制，也有實做出來的版本（例如伺服器版本），
就不能說是32bit造成的限制(該限制早已不存在)。而應該要說「要是驅動程式沒辦法配合，會造成OS不穩定」。
另外「2^32==4G」這種寫法本來就很容易讓人混淆。
既然 PAE 是在突破記憶體的限制,
那 32bit 的限制怎麼會叫做不存在呢?
又是因為存在所以才會需要突破,
就是因為存在, 所以才會有驅動程式沒辦法配合的情況.
2^32==4G 是基本觀念,
問題的根本.
聽了 2^32==4G 會混淆的人,
他還是得從 2^32==4G 開始了解,
聽了 2^32==4G 都不能理解的人,
講其他的只會更混淆.
johnhjwu wrote:
I totally agree with "a processor with 32-bit memory addresses can directly access 4GB of byte-addressable memory." It's common knowledge to everyone who know binary system. But your answer is only a part of real case and didn't get my point.
It is because this "common knowledge" so there is such limit on the memory size.
johnhjwu wrote:
There are still lots expectional examples in 32bit OS who can use above 4GB,
yes, and they are expection as you said.
Thus, there are technical problem can be cause by them.
"FreeBSD supports PAE in the 4.x series starting with 4.9, in the 5.x series starting with 5.1, and in all 6.x and later releases. The kernel PAE configuration option is required. Loadable kernel modules can only be loaded into a kernel with PAE enabled if the modules were built with PAE enabled; the binary modules in FreeBSD distributions are not built with PAE enabled, and thus cannot be loaded into PAE kernels. Not all drivers support more than 4 GB of physical memory; those drivers won't work correctly on a system with PAE."
"Solaris supports PAE beginning with Solaris version 7. However, third-party drivers used with version 7 are not specifically written to include PAE support may operate erratically or fail outright on a system with PAE."
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Address_Extension)
johnhjwu wrote:
if you keep mention about XP then I don't want to argue with this part.
Then, what are you doing?
johnhjwu wrote:
But like I always say it's an execuse from MS, and not real technical issue. Maybe it will happen disaster when use above 4GB memory in XP 32 bit OS. But it's not a restriction by 32 bit length.
It is a technical issue and I will mark them for you in case you do have trouble reading.
"FreeBSD supports PAE in the 4.x series starting with 4.9, in the 5.x series starting with 5.1, and in all 6.x and later releases. The kernel PAE configuration option is required. Loadable kernel modules can only be loaded into a kernel with PAE enabled if the modules were built with PAE enabled; the binary modules in FreeBSD distributions are not built with PAE enabled, and thus cannot be loaded into PAE kernels. Not all drivers support more than 4 GB of physical memory; those drivers won't work correctly on a system with PAE."
"Solaris supports PAE beginning with Solaris version 7. However, third-party drivers used with version 7 are not specifically written to include PAE support may operate erratically or fail outright on a system with PAE."
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Address_Extension)
Cudacke Dees wrote:
既然 PAE 是在突...(恕刪)
既然已經有PAE技術，為什麼還會認為32bit OS存在4GB限制?
2^32是基本觀念，但不應該用在這地方作為主要的說明。
問題的根本在於，這說說法不夠清楚，不夠徹底。
Cudacke Dees wrote:
聽了 2^32==4G 都不能理解的人,
講其他的只會更混淆.
真的要對一般人講，只要這樣就夠了：
「透過PAE可讓32位元OS支援超過4GB記憶體，原則上windows都支援此一技術，但是因為驅動程式在PAE下有驗證還有相容性問題（如同64位元跟伺服器版本Windows），
因此微軟在零售版本的Windows上加上了限制，伺服器本則無最高4GB RAM限制，但依照版本與市場區隔不同，會有不等的可用記憶體限制」。
連32次方都可以不用提。
您的那種說法則會產生這樣的爭議：「那要如何解釋32位元伺服器版本跟32位元Linux還有XP SP1可以用超過4G的事實?外星人科技？」
Cudacke Dees wrote:
It is because this "common knowledge" so there is such limit on the memory size....(恕刪)
只要有開PAE，就沒這限制，相信這也應該是常識。真正讓OS有疑慮的是驅動程式的設計，所以在PAE上才會礙手礙腳的，這點大家都同意。
但您卻執意把問題導回去32次方=4G的限制，恐怕是本末倒置的作法。
Cudacke Dees wrote:
It is a technical issue and I will mark them for you in case you do have trouble reading.
"FreeBSD supports PAE in the 4.x series starting with 4.9, in the 5.x series starting with 5.1, and in all 6.x and later releases. The kernel PAE configuration option is required. Loadable kernel modules can only be loaded into a kernel with PAE enabled if the modules were built with PAE enabled; the binary modules in FreeBSD distributions are not built with PAE enabled, and thus cannot be loaded into PAE kernels. Not all drivers support more than 4 GB of physical memory; those drivers won't work correctly on a system with PAE."
Just back from my lunch. Let's start next round, if you still have barrier to understand the 32 bit OS and 32 bit address length.
Is there relative between 32 bits OS and 32 bit address length? so you mean 32 bit OS can only implement under the CPU who can use 32 bit address length? I don't think it's this.
If you can try to understand what I keep saying the difference between 32 bit OS and 32 bit. Then I don't think you still think 32 bit OS can only manage under 4GB memeory.
By the way, if we say "Technically it works.", then it means it's not a technical issue. No mention about MS to implement XP is "technical" issue.
And sorry I can not join next round for this issue. Need to visit some customers this afternoon.
That's it.
你家的房子地坪是幾坪,建坪又是幾坪?
不知道什麼是什麼是地坪什麼是建坪喔!!!去問你爸媽!房子他們買的他們一定知道
現實生活中大家都知道100坪的土地上蓋的房子能使用的面積一定不小於100坪
因為能往上蓋呀
100坪土地上蓋一樓的房子能使用100坪面積...蓋二樓的房子能使用200坪面積............
最後頂樓搭個違建又能再多100坪出來.........
這種事情有需要辯嗎?
那跟4G有何關係?
32bit定址4G就是所謂的地坪
而能使用超過4G就是所謂建坪使用空間的概念
建商跟你說因為你的地坪只有20坪所以我只能幫你蓋出只能使用20坪空間的房子
該不會你就傻傻以為要使用40坪空間就必須再買20坪的土地來加蓋才能使用40坪了吧?
這也難怪
被關在窗子裏面也只能看到窗子大小的一片天-------->不用多想了,這句的意思就是井底之蛙的意思啦
還鞭twu2大是高職的咧!去google一下這位老兄(不敬)是什麼級數的咖再來鞭吧
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