當我們談論街拍時，我們在談論什麼？ (第3頁)

C.楊
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樓主

2020-06-06 15:03

索尼阿法 wrote:
例如你這張圖，如果你(恕刪)

謝謝您專程登入政治版小號和先前對228。0主題的支持，關於您前則對黑白影像的回應可能有所誤解，因原回覆對象已經刪除貼文讓您對不到上下文，這張圖也是回應原層主所附黑白無家者側影才張貼的。但是以您的專業對這起街頭偶發事件的評價我無法苟同，摒除其它因素凸顯主體的方式有很多種，可能用廣角仰視、標準焦段近距離平視，或我在此選擇的長焦壓縮。假設您對長焦壓縮沒有意見，單單認為是色彩干擾了主體應該轉為黑白，我們常說一個笑話：貓熊這輩子最大的願望就是拍一張彩色照片。在這個花花世界，如果有機會可以選擇留下一點什麼，在光影和色彩之間難道您也願意僅僅留下當下的光影嗎。回到正題，若您是以街頭攝影的角度看這張照片，去飽和再適度的加強對比凸顯主體和周遭人物，的確可以快速的讓照片變得看起來更吸引人。但在我看來，琳瑯滿目的彩色街招下，不願上白車裹著白色被單的無家者，和橘色更顯無奈握拳而立的救護員，更是我想傳達的或許可以稱為紀實而非街拍的一面。以前和人聊起電影總是不知不覺，一部部彩色又黑白談下去，總是在突然之間某個細節回憶不起來，才煞然意識到我們正在談的是一部黑白電影，卻不慎跌落一禎禎的光影間恍若未覺。既然您也是愛好攝影之人，這裡推薦您一部2000年的電影：鯨魚馬戲團。希望您看完後，也和我一樣陷入一片黑白的世界無法自拔。另外提醒您，這棟樓除了前面客運上的手機偷拍外全部皆為底片拍攝，如果您對黑白攝影有興趣，建議您也試試底片。

C.楊

C.楊
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樓主

2020-06-06 15:10

kmpop wrote:
分享一下，剛在網路隨(恕刪)

如果您認為平凡的生活寫真就是街拍，或說帶著重裝出門就是街拍，那推薦您臉書最大的亞洲街拍社群：街頭攝影。相信您一定會愛上

kmpop

kmpop
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2020-06-06 15:23

C.楊 wrote:
如果您認為平凡的生活寫真就是街拍，或說帶著重裝出門就是街拍

我沒想過或說過這兩者同是＝就是街拍，（鄭先生拿的是leica m10去拍，也不算重裝）
只是說平凡的生活寫真也可以是談論街拍的其中一個話題啦

C.楊

C.楊
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樓主

2020-06-06 15:42

kmpop wrote:
我沒想過或說過這兩者(恕刪)

抱歉前面語氣回太順就一起回應了，不過恕我直言，生活寫真可能向紀實靠攏，但在當代生活照就是生活照，若說古早拍照都要擺架子才捨得按快門，卻拿去拍些陌生人的生活寫真或許就和街拍這種叛骨的創造性思維有沾上邊。

Wanton1812

Wanton1812
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2020-06-06 18:27

主體太遠好像是我講的，不過我完全不是在嗆你的意思，一點也沒有，嗆你對我沒有任何好處，希望你不要放在心上。

這個是我在試圖了解街拍的分類時所看的影片，街拍包羅萬象，而你提到「街拍」是整個大分類裡面的一個部分，當然你可以說其他都是垃圾，畢竟是你的主觀。

這個是 Hermitissimo 貼出來引用 Sean Tucker 解釋 Gatekeeper 現象。
Sean Tucker:Photograph what makes you Happy (Ignore the Labelmakers and Gatekeepers)

C.楊

C.楊
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樓主

2020-06-06 19:32

flyingf wrote:
主體太遠好像是我講的(恕刪)

這是很普遍的評價沒有針對任何人，上面之前發看過了，下面再找時間。手機沒電簡短回，你應該有注意播主放上他所拍攝的影像，我應該可以不予置評了。關於它的分類方式L大也有很隱晦的回應你，我就直說了，他在分類僅僅就是廣義“在街上”的攝影，也就是把街頭攝影就字面意義分解成所有在街上拍攝的影像。在L大提供的Flickr社群規則中，很明確的否定任何建築風景人像之類你能夠輕鬆講出一串的攝影類別，而街頭攝影獨立於這些類別之外，即使沒有人有辦法很明確的定義它，但是看到影像時，我們就可以很輕鬆的指出它是街頭攝影。誠如我之前談過的家族相似性概念，game這個詞包含各種各樣的描述，但談到類別之外例如photography時，就可以很輕易將其區分開來。所以當你要談street photography時，就必須很明確將其和“街頭的”攝影區分開來。

06070800更。今天本來想睡到中午，不過昨天晚上新聞太震撼，我昨天經過市長和議長皺在一起的布條時居然沒按快門，害我整夜輾轉反側。回到正題關於讓你快樂的影像影片，看這種一直唸沒畫面，對我這種菜英文真的很累，他怎麼不乾脆寫文章就好，看之前還沒想起來gatekeeper的意思，到5:30才出現幾次，原來根本不是這部影片的關鍵啊。在電影上我們說類別電影，舉凡劇情片動作片之類，也可以說是相對於藝術電影來說的，但不代表屬於類型電影就不能是藝術片。同理在正文中我試圖區分紀實街頭和垃圾，結果看起來是失敗的，因為到頭來我認為自身的影像已經不包含任何能打動我的點，結果全部都是垃圾，但這也並非完全否定其中或多或少包含幾張街頭或紀實。如果發這部影片是要指出我站在看門人甚至有上帝視角，想必我非常不稱職，而如果要談我自認是一位街頭或紀實攝影師，這部分恕我也無法定義。至於播主最後放上讓它開心的影像，我可以明確告訴你，一大半並未達到我心中對街拍的那把尺。

ionium007

ionium007
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2020-06-06 19:39

C.楊 wrote:
那你可以教我哪裡比較(恕刪)

大師布列松，研究他的人很多，輪不到我說話，
決定性的瞬間。

你沒有比較差，存粹等級不同無法比較。

ION.

xmerz

xmerz
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2020-06-07 4:54

C.楊 wrote:
關於您的引文布列松喜愛黑白攝影我持保留態度，如果布列松有選擇他還會拍黑白嗎。

你的資訊需要更新了
其實不必讀多少布列松的著作
他對彩色攝影的看法算是廣為人知
簡單 Google 一下、Wiki 一下就可以找到不少
譬如這個小例子：

https://www.pinterest.ca/pin/572309065119897218/

C.楊

C.楊
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樓主

2020-06-07 7:21

xmerz wrote:
你的資訊需要更新了其(恕刪)

感謝更新資訊，已知用火就是我現在的情況。簡單說我關於布列松的認知，只停留在決定性瞬間和你的前一萬照片都是垃圾兩個詞組而已。查閱網路Bresson+color前五筆資訊，我不得不同意布列松是如此輕視色彩，同時也令我震驚。即便如此，我還是寧可相信片段的網路信息指出，布列松基於技術性問題才否定彩色攝影：彩色的曝光和顯影難題抑制獲取決定性瞬間之類。回到正題，誠如上面談過的我從來沒有輕視黑白影像，但是只要有機會就不會選擇黑白，布列松作為當代紀實攝影的奠基者，希望可以把他挖起來在現代好好談談這個問題。

ivanos

ivanos
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2020-06-07 9:36

xmerz wrote:

你的資訊需要更新了...(恕刪)

Bresson對 William Eggleston講的，如果是真的，應該是比較類似朋友之間的戲謔誇張用語。Bresson對非黑白的色彩的看法應該沒有那麼絕對，下頭引用幾段在他著作中提到color時的內容供參考。

Color

In talking about composition we have been so far thinking only in terms of that symbolic color called black. Black-and-white photography is a deformation, that is to say, an abstraction. In it, all the values are transposed; and this leaves the possibility of choice.

Color photography brings with it a number of problems that are hard to resolve today, and some of which are difficult even to foresee, owing to its complexity and its relative immaturity. At present [1952], color film emulsions are still very slow. Consequently, photographers using color have a tendency to confine themselves to static subjects; or else to use ferociously strong artificial lights. The slow speed of color film reduces the depth of focus in the field of vision in relatively close shots; and this cramping often makes for dull composition. On top of that, blurred backgrounds in color photographs are distinctly displeasing.
Color photographs in the form of transparencies seem quite pleasing sometimes. But then the engraver takes over; and a complete understanding with the engraver would appear to be as desirable in this business as it is in lithography. Finally, there are the inks and the paper, both of which are capable of acting capriciously. A color photograph reproduced in a magazine or semi- luxury edition sometimes gives the impression of an anatomical dissection which has been badly bungled.
It is true that color reproductions of pictures and documents have already achieved a certain fidelity to the original; but when the color proceeds to take on real life, it's another matter. We are only in the infancy of color photography. But all this is not to say we should take no further interest in the question, or sit by waiting for the perfect color film – packaged with the talent necessary to use it – to drop into our laps. We must continue to try to feel our way.
Though it is difficult to foresee exactly how color photography is going to grow m photo- reporting, it seems certain that it requires a new attitude of mind, an approach different than that which is appropriate for black-and-white. Personally, I am half afraid that this complex new element may tend to prejudice the achievement of the life and movement which is often caught by black-and-white.
To really be able to create in the field of color photography, we should transform and modulate colors, and thus achieve liberty of expression within the framework of the laws which were codified by the Impressionists and from which even a photographer cannot shy away. (The law, for instance, of simultaneous contrast: the law that every color tends to tinge the space next to it with its complementary color; that it two tones contain a color which is common to them both, that common color is attenuated by placing the two tones side by side; that two complementary colors placed side by side emphasize both, but mixed together they annihilate each other; and so on.)

The operation of bringing the color of nature in space to a printed surface poses a series of extremely complex problems. To the eye, certain colors advance, others recede. So we would have to be able to adjust the relations of the color one to the other, for colors, which in nature place themselves in the depth of space, claim a different placing on a plane surface – whether it is the flat surface of a painting or a photograph.
The difficulties involved in snapshooting are precisely that we cannot control the movement of the subject; and in color-photography reporting, the real difficulty is that we are unable to control the interrelation of colors within the subject. It wouldn't be hard to add to the list of difficulties involved, but it is quite certain that the development of photography is tied up with the development of its technique.