日產回應保時捷：R35 GT-R以街胎完成紐堡林測時!! (第17頁)

inconceivability

inconceivability
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2450分

161樓

2008-10-10 1:07

"實際發生過的歷史"
跟不當引用或關聯延申是兩回事

你就搞不清這一點,文不對題言不及義,這跟判斷力當然有點關係
不過看起來你應該還是不明白個中的道理

911其實沒有真正被幹掉...是因為911可以馬上又把人家幹掉,而不是一直擺爛,這事實、這道理還要人家教嗎???

假使真有911無力回天的一天,無法再保有優勢,911的失色也是可以被預測的
光榮的歷史總是抵不過現實的殘酷...我是說假使真有那麼一天的話

不好意思~
你講的話我可是沒有加油添醋

05'Premacy各方面的改裝潛力可是國產車中數一數二的...
所謂"汽車設計"就是"整車都自己設計"...

是算你表達的不夠清楚嗎?
我看起來的意思怎麼感覺就是字面上的意思
再說你同級的定義或許也很特別,不如你自己說看看到底有幾台同級?
如果只有1~2台,那我還真的錯怪你了,因為真的是數一數二
難怪有人認為如果DNA沒有一樣你就不能做比較了

再看哦...又是你自己講的,我沒亂加字哦
"任何比較都要用"同級"來比才有意義"
那照你的說法,難到堂堂的Porsche會發表無意義的聲明嗎?那應該是代表Porsche認為GT-R跟911是同級...是嗎?原廠都認為同級了,那你是比Porsche還Porsche嗎?這是用你的觀點來解釋的哦~
那如果認為GT-R不同級那為什麼又要提供同級的保固呢?

誰都知道這等級的跑車,使用里程通常都比代步車少得多
那我跟你說三菱的車超耐用 - 引擎與變速箱系統十年十六萬公里保固！
這樣不知你能不能認同...賽車設計師?

lucifer@mobile01

lucifer@mobile01
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267分

162樓

2008-10-10 1:25

歐洲的油價那麼貴, 沒有人會每天開個幾百公里去上班然後再開個幾百公里下班回家吧
尤其車速越高油耗越大, 以250KM/h 行走的跑車吃油比喝水還快,這樣不就上下班前各要
加一次油才有辦法上路

Roger17Chen

Roger17Chen
個人積分：114分
文章編號：8518262

114分

163樓

2008-10-10 1:39

那請問911的1/2價格的車,能夠提供"兩年不限里程保固"嗎??這應該很合理吧??一半的價格期望有一半的耐用性是很合理的要求吧??

請問60年來車壇上被超越無數次卻又能夠再超越回來的車有幾款??

被超越了幾次後就無力再超越回來的車子多如牛毛,只贏了一次就以為是贏,這也太可笑了....

像那些成功人士也是曾經被擊敗超多次,但是卻又能一次又一次的快速贏回來,所以他一直是成功的~~

若有人認為其生涯中曾經贏過郭董一次就是比郭董厲害,那就任其去自我陶醉吧....

我說過,若是我講的"歷史"有錯,請提出正確的"歷史"來更正我~~

之前有大大提出正確的"歷史"來更正我,我也承認講錯而立刻更正,請明察~~

Roger陳

inconceivability

inconceivability
個人積分：2450分
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2450分

164樓

2008-10-10 2:24

嗯嗯嗯~照這麼說...
那兩倍的價格,就要有雙倍的性能,這樣的要求應該也不算過份

在你還在說為麼去找一輛早已經被幹掉很多次的車來挑戰有何意義的時候
我就跟你講911其實沒有真正被幹掉...是因為911可以馬上又把人家幹掉,這個事實這個道理！
所以你不用換個例子跟我再講一次

所以這件其實也很很單純,也早就有人提了
在賽道上贏回來就好了嘛

贏一次不是贏；輸一次也不是就上了絕路嘛
何必講一些什麼最速單圈、平均最速那些東西幹什麼,誰可笑很明顯了吧?

歷史沒問題,有問題的是將歷史引經據典錯方向的人,這句話很難懂嗎?
你可以堅持己見,但不要視而不見

總歸來說...
要你自己舉個Premacy同級的車也沒看到
不然什麼樣的對手才是911的同級車,要說之前請考慮清楚自己講的最速單圈、平均最速理論
你到底能不能設計整台車也不知道?你對人、事的要求都很高,就不知標準套在自己身上行不行
一直說GT-R有耐用疑慮,結果根本無法舉證！勉強硬擠出一個要看有沒有四年不限里程保固的條件,這會不會有點好笑...

azobenzene

azobenzene
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30分

165樓

2008-10-10 2:30

Roger17Chen wrote:
我之所以會提出"單圈...(恕刪)

就賽車與保固部份做些回應.一般車商所提供的保固都是有但書的,就算是Porsche甚至Ferrari等等名廠也是一樣,賽道損壞都是列於保固之外,我們車友在賽道上操壞的名車不少,全部都還是得自己找贊助廠商要錢去修車.GT2常聽到的就有車架鬆脫等等,transmission故障更只是稀鬆平常的小問題,就算是爆缸也不是沒發生過的.

真正賽事上的零件損耗率不是平常開車能比的,以一般使用狀況,在幾次賽事之內就能把一顆離合器磨平.每個月回原廠去換一顆新的transmission外加車體鬆脫補強,每半年回去換一顆引擎,你以為哪間原廠可以無限用保固承受這種賽事磨耗?

一點淺見,職業賽事如何如何,跟市售車無關,更與車商的保固無關.

不過我不太相信你說的GT-R只能跑一圈,畢竟我們前些時候才測過,雖然賽道的規模不能跟Green Hell比,但我們跑個十來圈一點問題都沒有,成績的穩定性也夠,前前後後包括我們也有幾組人馬來這試過GT-R了,即使試車手的駕駛方式有所偏好,最後成績差異也在合理的範圍內.

不過我還真沒看過哪台車只能跑一圈的.

[Sai] = L2 =

[Sai] = L2 =
個人積分：24分
文章編號：8519506

24分

166樓

2008-10-10 8:13

Roger17Chen wrote:
其實保時捷的DM已經很清楚的宣告它的耐用性,就是"四年不限里程保固",換句話說,你買了之後若是狠狠的四年內每天24小時不停的換人全速猛操它,若能操掛了,依法保時捷會一樣二話不說幫你修到恢復原狀,這樣還不算耐用嗎??

澳洲Hyundai提供10年不限里程保固, 換句話說, 用你的邏輯思考Hyundai最耐用！
根本就是無敵的!

換句話說,你買了之後若是狠狠的十年內每天24小時不停的換人全速猛操它,若能操掛了,依法Hyundai會一樣二話不說幫你修到恢復原狀,這樣還不算耐用嗎??

還有你哪家學校的不敢說是吧？

同樣的梗對剩鬥士只能用一次, 燃燒吧洨宇宙~

tom2517

tom2517
個人積分：6分
文章編號：8524666

6分

167樓

2008-10-10 19:54

Nissan has made an official response to Porsche's test. Maybe someone can summarize it in Chinese.

Nissan Motor Company Ltd.

Global Communications

October 9, 2008

Statement

NISSAN GT-R TEST PROCEDURES

In light of comments made recently in the media concerning the testing of the Nissan GT-R, it is clear that there are some important facts that were not accurately represented.

Background

o On September 24, 2007 the Nissan GT-R recorded a lap time of the Nordschleife circuit at Germany's Nurburgring of seven minutes and 38 seconds. This lap time was completed in weather conditions that the Nissan test team knew would not show the full potential of the car.

o On April 17, 2008 the Nissan test team was back at the Nurburgring and recorded a new lap time of seven minutes and 29 seconds, several times.

o For all testing at the Nurburgring and other circuits such as Sendai Highlands in Japan, the GT-R development team used production specification vehicles with production specification tires. These tests are part of the extensive performance and durability program undertaken before, during and after the commercial introduction of the GT-R.

o The GT-R is a world-class supercar developed to be sold in multiple global markets. While specifications can differ across the various markets, the cars used to record both Nurburgring lap times were identical to the Japanese market production specification cars.

o For the April 2008 test, the GT-R carried an additional 50kg of weight due to the Marelli data recorder and video camera equipment. In addition, the test was witnessed by 'Best Motoring' magazine from Japan who reported the test in their July 2008 issue, which included a DVD program of the session.

o Nissan records the lap times around the Nurburgring using the same methodology and measuring locations as Sport Auto Magazine in Germany. Sport Auto Magazine provides the most consistent and objective measurement of lap times around the Nurburgring, allowing accurate comparisons between different vehicles.

o In both timed lap sessions at the Nurburgring, chief test driver and professional racing driver, Toshio Suzuki was at the wheel. Suzuki has been the chief test driver on the GT-R program throughout the vehicle's development.

Tires

The GT-R offers two different tire choices for customers:

o Bridgestone POTENZA RE070R
o Dunlop SP SPORT 600 DSST CTT

o For the tests conducted at the Nurburgring where the lap times of 7:38 and 7:29 were recorded, the Dunlop tires were used. The tires – which are designed for high performance driving in the dry and wet - used in the tests were identical to the production specification tires available to GT-R customers.

o In June, 2008 Dunlop Japan issued a press release announcing that their tires had been used by Nissan to record the 7:29 lap time. The release can be accessed in Japanese and English at:

http://www.dunlop.co.jp/newsrelease/2008/2008_039.htm

http://www3.srigroup.co.jp/CACHE/news_news_e_newsobj144_2008.cfm

o For any media interested in seeing the actual tires used at the test (7:29 lap time), they should contact the Public Relations Department at Sumitomo Rubber Industries, Ltd. in Japan.

Driving the GT-R

o Consistent with industry benchmarking practices, we are aware that several auto makers have purchased the GT-R for their own testing and evaluation. Like all GT-R customers, we recommend that any auto maker buying a GT-R should follow the recommended run-in procedures, service schedules and maintenance to ensure the maximum performance from their car.

o In addition, we offer performance driving courses for prospective and current GT-R owners to help them get the best performance from their car. We would welcome the opportunity to help any auto manufacturer with understanding the full capabilities of the GT-R.

Remarks

From Kazutoshi Mizuno, Chief Vehicle Engineer and Chief Product Specialist for GT-R:

"We have used circuits like the Nurburgring and Sendai extensively during the development of the GT-R. The fastest lap-time was never the objective but a simple parameter for us to measure the GT-R in a consistent way against other world class supercars."

"Testing a car with specialized parts such as unique tires or suspension has no meaning for us. The GT-R was designed from the start to be a supercar that could be driven anywhere, anytime and by anyone. For us, testing the car in standard production specification is far more relevant than creating a one-off vehicle that our customers cannot buy."

Conclusion
Due to the weather conditions at the Nurburgring, testing has now stopped and will resume around April 2009. Nissan will be back at the Nurburgring testing both the standard GT-R and upcoming additional models. We look forward to welcoming more members of the media to join us for these test sessions, consistent with our transparency at previous test sessions.

Roger17Chen

Roger17Chen
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2008-10-10 20:00

嗯~~照這樣看來我也不用多說了,大家認為哪輛好也是個人的自由~~反正我該説的都說了,該提出的警告也說了,信不信也是看個人,反正買車是自己高興就好,不是嗎??

我說過,我只是轉述歷史,而看到後是否受歷史影響是個人的問題,就像歷史類節目只是播出歷史內容,觀眾知道歷史後要如何反應是個人的調適問題~~

因此我是哪裡人哪裡畢業的在哪裡工作都跟歷史的內容無關,歷史就是歷史,難道大學教授講的歷史就一定是對的,而小學生講的歷史就一定是錯的???

討論事情本來就應該對事不對人,"不因人而廢言"是最基本的"議事規則",任何發言人的身分能力本來就不應被提出來討論~~

既然有人會"因人而廢言",那這種討論只會淪為人身攻擊的口水戰,將不會有任何意義,我也不想再浪費時間在這篇了......

反正大家高興支持哪輛買哪輛都不關我的事,我又不賣車,沒必要再浪費我的時間~~

歷史會說話,大家只要去搜尋一下就知道一切了,我也不用轉述還要被冷潮熱諷,我沒有義務要對歷史負責,知道史實後也不用把不滿出在我身上,因為那根本不關我的事~~

另外,我從來沒說過:"GTR只能跑一圈"這句話,請明察~~

Roger陳

[Sai] = L2 =

[Sai] = L2 =
個人積分：24分
文章編號：8525318

24分

169樓

2008-10-10 21:06

Roger17Chen wrote:
嗯~~照這樣看來我也...(恕刪)

顧左右而言它最高等級也不過如此了. 佩服佩服.

同樣的梗對剩鬥士只能用一次, 燃燒吧洨宇宙~

inconceivability

inconceivability
個人積分：2450分
文章編號：8526741

2450分

170樓

2008-10-10 22:58

自己矛盾到無法收尾的時候~逃避也不失為一個方法

當給一個人可以自清自白的時候,卻不願正面去面對問題時,也許有是某種程度的心虛

不用再提關於所謂的「歷史」！
那只是在雞同鴨講,不要再用這一塊混洧視聽了
「歷史」沒問題,有問題的是將歷史「引經據典錯方向的人」,這句話很難懂嗎?真的不懂嗎?

一個人殺了人,那就是個事實,不會變的歷史
但可以說他的小孩以後一定也會殺人嗎?這樣的引用推測適當嗎?
「歷史」跟「用歷史資料做引用」是兩回事...這樣淺白的舉例還不能理解,我也沒辦法了

指的本就是不同層面的事,不用在「歷史」這上面打謎糊仗了啦

不負責任憑空想像一堆莫須有的情節,到頭來根本就沒有一個明確的事實、可靠的資料,來做作推測的立足點
只剩"四年不限里程保固"..........................
當初我還以為真的能長長見識,現在才知道到底是誰在浪費誰的時間

有時間可以考慮或用勇氣來面對以下問題,不怕你講只怕你閉嘴

Premacy同級的車...
不然什麼樣的對手才是911的同級車...
能不能設計整台車...

把話講的很滿,還說人厚臉皮的可不是在下